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	<title>Comments on: Energy &#8211; It Just Doesn&#8217;t Add Up</title>
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	<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/</link>
	<description>Environmental Leader</description>
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		<title>By: francis</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/comment-page-1/#comment-179769</link>
		<dc:creator>francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=16578#comment-179769</guid>
		<description>Good information-thanks. I am keeping watch on all the latest developments in geothermal pumps-makes a lot of sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good information-thanks. I am keeping watch on all the latest developments in geothermal pumps-makes a lot of sense to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Boeheim</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/comment-page-1/#comment-133266</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Boeheim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=16578#comment-133266</guid>
		<description>As the author of the above article, I would like to address a few of the comments.  First, my attempt was not to use hysterical commentary in my article.  I believe I was pointing out that far too many people have used hysteria and emotion to further their point of view on this matter.  Flourescent light bulbs are definitley a long term problem.  Otherwise, why would they have a special disposal process for them. Why not just throw them in landfills?
Second, all of the calculations in the world can&#039;t change the fact that almost every popular scientist got it wrong in the late &#039;60s and &#039;70s.  None of them are willing to admit it now.  During the snow and ice storms of the late &#039;70s all you heard was how we had brought this upon ourselves with our crazy oil consumption and pollution.  The ice age was coming!!  And the reality, as with most things is that in order to get attention, and federal grants, they overstated the issue.  The reality is much more mundane.  I get that it isn&#039;t popular to question Al Gore and his followers, but even the EPA has produced (and suppressed) reports suggesting global warming is over stated.  Just because it&#039;s a minority opinion doesn&#039;t make it wrong.
Third, I&#039;m surprised that an alternative opinion would challenge you so much.  I believe the biggest problem we face around our Energy, and Planetary Health, concerns is that there is no room for more than one point of view.  If everytime someone has an alternative theory you just shout them down with insults, who will be left to question your hypothesis?  See when I went to school, science was about forming a hypothesis and then attempting to prove it wrong.  If you couldn&#039;t then you you had yourself a Theorem.  This method of taking a few pieces of data that supports a hypothesis and immediately calling it a fact isn&#039;t science.
Finally, if we continue to rely on regional energy sources we will be limiting our potential.  Just like the days of Main Frame computing, it was hard to see past it, but look at what we have accomplished by distributing the computing power out to the edge of the network.  I just wonder if we can&#039;t create some of that magic in the world of energy production and at the same time solve many of the emissions and pollution problems in the process?
My 2 cents!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the author of the above article, I would like to address a few of the comments.  First, my attempt was not to use hysterical commentary in my article.  I believe I was pointing out that far too many people have used hysteria and emotion to further their point of view on this matter.  Flourescent light bulbs are definitley a long term problem.  Otherwise, why would they have a special disposal process for them. Why not just throw them in landfills?<br />
Second, all of the calculations in the world can&#8217;t change the fact that almost every popular scientist got it wrong in the late &#8217;60s and &#8217;70s.  None of them are willing to admit it now.  During the snow and ice storms of the late &#8217;70s all you heard was how we had brought this upon ourselves with our crazy oil consumption and pollution.  The ice age was coming!!  And the reality, as with most things is that in order to get attention, and federal grants, they overstated the issue.  The reality is much more mundane.  I get that it isn&#8217;t popular to question Al Gore and his followers, but even the EPA has produced (and suppressed) reports suggesting global warming is over stated.  Just because it&#8217;s a minority opinion doesn&#8217;t make it wrong.<br />
Third, I&#8217;m surprised that an alternative opinion would challenge you so much.  I believe the biggest problem we face around our Energy, and Planetary Health, concerns is that there is no room for more than one point of view.  If everytime someone has an alternative theory you just shout them down with insults, who will be left to question your hypothesis?  See when I went to school, science was about forming a hypothesis and then attempting to prove it wrong.  If you couldn&#8217;t then you you had yourself a Theorem.  This method of taking a few pieces of data that supports a hypothesis and immediately calling it a fact isn&#8217;t science.<br />
Finally, if we continue to rely on regional energy sources we will be limiting our potential.  Just like the days of Main Frame computing, it was hard to see past it, but look at what we have accomplished by distributing the computing power out to the edge of the network.  I just wonder if we can&#8217;t create some of that magic in the world of energy production and at the same time solve many of the emissions and pollution problems in the process?<br />
My 2 cents!</p>
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		<title>By: Halogenica</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/comment-page-1/#comment-132656</link>
		<dc:creator>Halogenica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=16578#comment-132656</guid>
		<description>Stuart, clearly you&#039;ve bought all the CFL PR-arguments hook, line and sinker. Please try to get some perspective here. Switching high quality bulbs to poorer quality CFLs, will at best save perhaps 0.15% of total U.S. energy use. http://greenerlights.blogspot.com/2009/06/us-energy-statistics.html Even if half of that comes from coal, which seems more effective to you: chasing light bulbs or using cleaner energy to power the remaining 99.85% of U.S. energy use?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart, clearly you&#8217;ve bought all the CFL PR-arguments hook, line and sinker. Please try to get some perspective here. Switching high quality bulbs to poorer quality CFLs, will at best save perhaps 0.15% of total U.S. energy use. <a href="http://greenerlights.blogspot.com/2009/06/us-energy-statistics.html" rel="nofollow">http://greenerlights.blogspot.com/2009/06/us-energy-statistics.html</a> Even if half of that comes from coal, which seems more effective to you: chasing light bulbs or using cleaner energy to power the remaining 99.85% of U.S. energy use?</p>
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		<title>By: Alexis Madrigal</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/comment-page-1/#comment-132472</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexis Madrigal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=16578#comment-132472</guid>
		<description>My main gripe is that forecasts of electricity demand should never be listed as &quot;truths.&quot; There is absolutely no way of knowing how much electricity we&#039;ll be using and most forecasters have been wrong. Is it likely that we&#039;ll use more electricity in 20 years than now? Sure. But is that a sure thing? Absolutely not. 

Of course, if we reject the determinism implied by forecasts like that, we&#039;ll actually have to take responsibility for building the kind of society that we want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main gripe is that forecasts of electricity demand should never be listed as &#8220;truths.&#8221; There is absolutely no way of knowing how much electricity we&#8217;ll be using and most forecasters have been wrong. Is it likely that we&#8217;ll use more electricity in 20 years than now? Sure. But is that a sure thing? Absolutely not. </p>
<p>Of course, if we reject the determinism implied by forecasts like that, we&#8217;ll actually have to take responsibility for building the kind of society that we want.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe S.</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/comment-page-1/#comment-132440</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=16578#comment-132440</guid>
		<description>Gotta love misrepresentation brought by an ignorant press. 

First off: one scientist in the &#039;70s asked if there could be an ice age, and suggested further study. Newsweek and others jumped on the story and presented it as fact, instead of saying that it was a question being asked. Further study, as recommended by the scientist, showed that not only would there not be an ice age, but that there would be considerable warming. We are in the early stages of that warming now. There has been consistent consensus, and consistent evidence of warming ever since. The only current &quot;studies&quot; indicating that warming might not happen have been funded by the very industries that stand to profit most if we do not address warming (coal and oil). Those industry funded &quot;studies&quot; comprise less than 1% of the scientific opinion on the subject. The other 99%, conducted by scientists not on the payroll of those companies, point in one direction: we are warming. 

The only questions remaining about warming are related to how rapidly, how the damage will manifest itself, and how, if at all, we can mitigate the damage.

Secondly, there was a similar misrepresentation of the oil crisis. The scientific community was NOT claiming that we would run out of oil by now, but that the oil supply would peak and begin to decline. This has happened. The US supply peaked in the 1970s (which is why folks suddenly realized oil was not infinite), and little of the world&#039;s oil now comes from the US. Other countries&#039; supplies peaked at different points in time - with the last remaining known major fields apparently peaking sometime in mid 2005. &quot;Peak&quot; and &quot;End&quot; are two different words. The peak is simply the point at which half of the oil has been extracted from a field, and more input (think &quot;higher pressure&quot;) is required to extract the remaining oil. As the amount of oil in a field declines, the amount of energy expended to push the remaining oil out increases, reducing the overall yield from the field. This means oil will become more expensive, since it costs more to extract it. Over time - usually a long time, a field will eventually run dry, and on the way to that stage, it becomes increasingly expensive to extract the oil that remains - thus the oil from that field becomes increasingly expensive over time. 

News in the &#039;70s misinterpreted this as &quot;OMG! We&#039;re running out of oil! Panic!&quot; instead of the more accurate: &quot;Hmmm... oil is going to cost more as it becomes more expensive to pump it out of the ground, maybe we should plan for that.&quot;

Both phenomena are real, and the scientists have been correct. The poor science training of reporters combined with the sensationalist tendencies of publishers did us all a disservice by misrepresenting the reality on these important issues. 

Modern journalists who rely on industry talking points, which were derived from the misrepresentations of poorly-educated press in the 1970s, instead of doing original sourcing using the actual studies, are doing a further disservice, by encouraging short-term thinking (it&#039;s not a crisis, yet) over long term thinking (let&#039;s keep it from becoming a crisis).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta love misrepresentation brought by an ignorant press. </p>
<p>First off: one scientist in the &#8217;70s asked if there could be an ice age, and suggested further study. Newsweek and others jumped on the story and presented it as fact, instead of saying that it was a question being asked. Further study, as recommended by the scientist, showed that not only would there not be an ice age, but that there would be considerable warming. We are in the early stages of that warming now. There has been consistent consensus, and consistent evidence of warming ever since. The only current &#8220;studies&#8221; indicating that warming might not happen have been funded by the very industries that stand to profit most if we do not address warming (coal and oil). Those industry funded &#8220;studies&#8221; comprise less than 1% of the scientific opinion on the subject. The other 99%, conducted by scientists not on the payroll of those companies, point in one direction: we are warming. </p>
<p>The only questions remaining about warming are related to how rapidly, how the damage will manifest itself, and how, if at all, we can mitigate the damage.</p>
<p>Secondly, there was a similar misrepresentation of the oil crisis. The scientific community was NOT claiming that we would run out of oil by now, but that the oil supply would peak and begin to decline. This has happened. The US supply peaked in the 1970s (which is why folks suddenly realized oil was not infinite), and little of the world&#8217;s oil now comes from the US. Other countries&#8217; supplies peaked at different points in time &#8211; with the last remaining known major fields apparently peaking sometime in mid 2005. &#8220;Peak&#8221; and &#8220;End&#8221; are two different words. The peak is simply the point at which half of the oil has been extracted from a field, and more input (think &#8220;higher pressure&#8221;) is required to extract the remaining oil. As the amount of oil in a field declines, the amount of energy expended to push the remaining oil out increases, reducing the overall yield from the field. This means oil will become more expensive, since it costs more to extract it. Over time &#8211; usually a long time, a field will eventually run dry, and on the way to that stage, it becomes increasingly expensive to extract the oil that remains &#8211; thus the oil from that field becomes increasingly expensive over time. </p>
<p>News in the &#8217;70s misinterpreted this as &#8220;OMG! We&#8217;re running out of oil! Panic!&#8221; instead of the more accurate: &#8220;Hmmm&#8230; oil is going to cost more as it becomes more expensive to pump it out of the ground, maybe we should plan for that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Both phenomena are real, and the scientists have been correct. The poor science training of reporters combined with the sensationalist tendencies of publishers did us all a disservice by misrepresenting the reality on these important issues. </p>
<p>Modern journalists who rely on industry talking points, which were derived from the misrepresentations of poorly-educated press in the 1970s, instead of doing original sourcing using the actual studies, are doing a further disservice, by encouraging short-term thinking (it&#8217;s not a crisis, yet) over long term thinking (let&#8217;s keep it from becoming a crisis).</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/06/25/energy-it-just-doesnt-add-up/comment-page-1/#comment-132399</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=16578#comment-132399</guid>
		<description>Please lay back on the &quot;hysterical&quot; adjectives and focus more on some cogent analysis of the energy issue.  Anyone who is actually interested in reading a detailed and thoughtful analysis of today&#039;s energy crisis should read David MacKay&#039;s &quot;Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air&quot;.  Which you can download for free at http://www.withouthotair.com/ 

While it appears the above author is well intentioned (in his effort to sell his book), it is vital that anyone who writes on this issue have the science and facts in some semblance of order to provide reasonable political advice.  

As a brief example of how Mr. Boeheim fails this test, he states that we have been &quot;regulated into using mercury laden fluorescent lights, which unquestionably has a negative impact on the environment&quot; is both misleading and simply untrue.  The basic flaw is this, since we get 50% of our electricity in the US from coal (and burning coal releases mercury) and incandescent bulbs are much more inefficient than CFLs, then the mercury from using an incandescent bulb over the entire life cycle is greater than that from the CFL even though the CFL actually contains mercury. The environmental impacts of a lightbulb, just like a car, are centered in the use phase rather than the manufacture or disposal phase of product.

A paper by the Rocky Mountain Institute explains the debate in detail with useful references to a variety of  papers from the DOE, the EPA and academic institutions. http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/Climate/C08-02_CFL_LCA.pdf

The answer to this question is not &quot;simpler than you think&quot; and requires some calculation, analysis and research (inside the box thinking) before you begin to tell people who don&#039;t live in windy or sunny areas to make inefficient investments.  Before you tell people what does or doesn&#039;t actually add up, you might want to do the math yourself.

To the folks at environmental leader - the site is great but keep the standards for submissions high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please lay back on the &#8220;hysterical&#8221; adjectives and focus more on some cogent analysis of the energy issue.  Anyone who is actually interested in reading a detailed and thoughtful analysis of today&#8217;s energy crisis should read David MacKay&#8217;s &#8220;Sustainable Energy &#8211; Without the Hot Air&#8221;.  Which you can download for free at <a href="http://www.withouthotair.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.withouthotair.com/</a> </p>
<p>While it appears the above author is well intentioned (in his effort to sell his book), it is vital that anyone who writes on this issue have the science and facts in some semblance of order to provide reasonable political advice.  </p>
<p>As a brief example of how Mr. Boeheim fails this test, he states that we have been &#8220;regulated into using mercury laden fluorescent lights, which unquestionably has a negative impact on the environment&#8221; is both misleading and simply untrue.  The basic flaw is this, since we get 50% of our electricity in the US from coal (and burning coal releases mercury) and incandescent bulbs are much more inefficient than CFLs, then the mercury from using an incandescent bulb over the entire life cycle is greater than that from the CFL even though the CFL actually contains mercury. The environmental impacts of a lightbulb, just like a car, are centered in the use phase rather than the manufacture or disposal phase of product.</p>
<p>A paper by the Rocky Mountain Institute explains the debate in detail with useful references to a variety of  papers from the DOE, the EPA and academic institutions. <a href="http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/Climate/C08-02_CFL_LCA.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.rmi.org/images/PDFs/Climate/C08-02_CFL_LCA.pdf</a></p>
<p>The answer to this question is not &#8220;simpler than you think&#8221; and requires some calculation, analysis and research (inside the box thinking) before you begin to tell people who don&#8217;t live in windy or sunny areas to make inefficient investments.  Before you tell people what does or doesn&#8217;t actually add up, you might want to do the math yourself.</p>
<p>To the folks at environmental leader &#8211; the site is great but keep the standards for submissions high.</p>
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