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	<title>Comments on: Climategate: Environmentalists versus climate-change deniers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/</link>
	<description>Environmental Leader</description>
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		<title>By: mel</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-168024</link>
		<dc:creator>mel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-168024</guid>
		<description>ITS all a fraud myou lot have been busted ,and even common sense tells you its lies ,next youwill be telling us the ice will melt when its minus 50 ,or that the climate never changed in 4 billion yrs without us even here ,get a life  say and pay for this the biggest fraud in history even the peer review was rigged by their own words ,it a discrace and criminal charges shoul apply to all the scammers including gore.see eu agenda 21 on u tube ,thats the real horror these communists are after ,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ITS all a fraud myou lot have been busted ,and even common sense tells you its lies ,next youwill be telling us the ice will melt when its minus 50 ,or that the climate never changed in 4 billion yrs without us even here ,get a life  say and pay for this the biggest fraud in history even the peer review was rigged by their own words ,it a discrace and criminal charges shoul apply to all the scammers including gore.see eu agenda 21 on u tube ,thats the real horror these communists are after ,</p>
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		<title>By: Amcana</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-167128</link>
		<dc:creator>Amcana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-167128</guid>
		<description>Some folks from my neck of the woods have made Climate Change the focus and primary justification for environmental action.  Whatever happened to environmental stewardship, pre-baby boomers knew all about this – probably didn’t call it that though.  My thoughts aren’t new to any diehard environmentalist, I think I’m more going after the Marketing locusts that look for the next hot topic and absolutely milk it for every last drop of credibility until the very sound of it reminds you of a pair of MC Hammer pants.  Comes down to figuring out what drives you towards making the right choices. If Climate Change doesn’t work for you, then don’t get hung up on it.  I can give you a thousand other reasons that may seem a bit more down to earth. twitter.com/amcana_enviro</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some folks from my neck of the woods have made Climate Change the focus and primary justification for environmental action.  Whatever happened to environmental stewardship, pre-baby boomers knew all about this – probably didn’t call it that though.  My thoughts aren’t new to any diehard environmentalist, I think I’m more going after the Marketing locusts that look for the next hot topic and absolutely milk it for every last drop of credibility until the very sound of it reminds you of a pair of MC Hammer pants.  Comes down to figuring out what drives you towards making the right choices. If Climate Change doesn’t work for you, then don’t get hung up on it.  I can give you a thousand other reasons that may seem a bit more down to earth. twitter.com/amcana_enviro</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166962</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166962</guid>
		<description>Deniers ??  People who use this term are showing they just don&#039;t understand the scientific arguments put forward by the climate realists. 

Like Al Gore, who refuses to debate any of the climate scientists that have challenged him to debate. 

The truth is most deniers are well educated regarding the hundreds of previous &quot;global warmings&quot; and &quot;global coolings&quot; on our planet.

I find it is the carbon tax enthusiasts are generally not well educated regarding basic climate history. 

Feel free to click my name above, and brush up on basic climate science, regardless of where you stand on &quot;global warming.&quot;

Dr. Goldstein</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deniers ??  People who use this term are showing they just don&#8217;t understand the scientific arguments put forward by the climate realists. </p>
<p>Like Al Gore, who refuses to debate any of the climate scientists that have challenged him to debate. </p>
<p>The truth is most deniers are well educated regarding the hundreds of previous &#8220;global warmings&#8221; and &#8220;global coolings&#8221; on our planet.</p>
<p>I find it is the carbon tax enthusiasts are generally not well educated regarding basic climate history. </p>
<p>Feel free to click my name above, and brush up on basic climate science, regardless of where you stand on &#8220;global warming.&#8221;</p>
<p>Dr. Goldstein</p>
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		<title>By: Custom Organic Shirts</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166907</link>
		<dc:creator>Custom Organic Shirts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166907</guid>
		<description>All of you, read this from the above article:

&quot;Still, the report findings, based on 200 peer-reviewed papers, reveal that global warming emissions in 2008 were nearly 40 percent higher than those in 1990 and sea level rise is 80 percent above past IPCC predictions...&quot;

GHG emissions ARE increasing and climate change IS happening. That quotation does not reference model predictions, it references what is ALREADY HAPPENING and being MEASURED.

Should scientists be manipulating the journal publication process? No, obviously not. However, given the degree to which cliamte change deniers have historically twisted and otherwise blown out of proportion legitimate scientific inquiry and debate, I can understand why these scientists thought they needed to keep parts of the debate out of the public view. Again, not a good decision, but good to keep in mind as everyone reacts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of you, read this from the above article:</p>
<p>&#8220;Still, the report findings, based on 200 peer-reviewed papers, reveal that global warming emissions in 2008 were nearly 40 percent higher than those in 1990 and sea level rise is 80 percent above past IPCC predictions&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>GHG emissions ARE increasing and climate change IS happening. That quotation does not reference model predictions, it references what is ALREADY HAPPENING and being MEASURED.</p>
<p>Should scientists be manipulating the journal publication process? No, obviously not. However, given the degree to which cliamte change deniers have historically twisted and otherwise blown out of proportion legitimate scientific inquiry and debate, I can understand why these scientists thought they needed to keep parts of the debate out of the public view. Again, not a good decision, but good to keep in mind as everyone reacts.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Suede</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166690</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Suede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166690</guid>
		<description>I love how climategate deniers constantly reference the emails like that was the only thing leaked.

The leak consisted of over 3000 documents, only 1000 of which were emails.

The actual source code for the climate models was leaked as well.

Here software developer explains the blatant fraud in the climate model code:

http://fascistsoup.com/2009/11/25/more-on-the-climategate-source-code/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how climategate deniers constantly reference the emails like that was the only thing leaked.</p>
<p>The leak consisted of over 3000 documents, only 1000 of which were emails.</p>
<p>The actual source code for the climate models was leaked as well.</p>
<p>Here software developer explains the blatant fraud in the climate model code:</p>
<p><a href="http://fascistsoup.com/2009/11/25/more-on-the-climategate-source-code/" rel="nofollow">http://fascistsoup.com/2009/11/25/more-on-the-climategate-source-code/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tana Kantor</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166687</link>
		<dc:creator>Tana Kantor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166687</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the wrong debate.  We need carbon markets whether we believe in climate change or not. See:  http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/its-energy-stupid/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the wrong debate.  We need carbon markets whether we believe in climate change or not. See:  <a href="http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/its-energy-stupid/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/its-energy-stupid/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Vangel</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166609</link>
		<dc:creator>Vangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 04:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166609</guid>
		<description>&quot;Despite many years of fabrication, fraud and deceit on the part of the climate change denial industry, which the Guardian blog called 100 times worse than anything in the hacked emails, climate scientists now look bad. But still, it doesn’t justify their secrecy and suppression of data on the part of climate scientists, according to the article.&quot;

How strange.  The evidence clearly show that it was the IPCC and the AGW proponents that committed fraud yet you attack the sceptics, who turned out to be right.  

Nothing in the e-mails is new.  Dr. Wegman (not a sceptic) pointed out to the credibility problems when he reviewed the M&amp;M complaint against Mann, Bradley, and Hughes, who created the famous &#039;Hockey Stick&#039; by using inappropriate data and wrong statistical methods.  When Wegman concluded that by using the proper methods the hockey stick disappeared the media spun the story into a victory for the AGW side.  The reason why this fraud occurred was because the media fell asleep and ignored that there was never any empirical data presented that could remotely show that CO2 was a major driver of temperature trends and ignored the fact that most of the warmers&#039; papers did not meet the journals&#039; data disclosure policies.

I think that if the mainstream media wants to restore some of the credibility it once had, it needs to treat this story seriously and to dig into it fully rather than ignore the truth until it is too late.  It is exactly this story that shows why the old media is failing and shedding jobs at such a high rate.  The establishment is not adjusting quickly enough and seems to care more about looking bad by admitting errors than it cares abut the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Despite many years of fabrication, fraud and deceit on the part of the climate change denial industry, which the Guardian blog called 100 times worse than anything in the hacked emails, climate scientists now look bad. But still, it doesn’t justify their secrecy and suppression of data on the part of climate scientists, according to the article.&#8221;</p>
<p>How strange.  The evidence clearly show that it was the IPCC and the AGW proponents that committed fraud yet you attack the sceptics, who turned out to be right.  </p>
<p>Nothing in the e-mails is new.  Dr. Wegman (not a sceptic) pointed out to the credibility problems when he reviewed the M&amp;M complaint against Mann, Bradley, and Hughes, who created the famous &#8216;Hockey Stick&#8217; by using inappropriate data and wrong statistical methods.  When Wegman concluded that by using the proper methods the hockey stick disappeared the media spun the story into a victory for the AGW side.  The reason why this fraud occurred was because the media fell asleep and ignored that there was never any empirical data presented that could remotely show that CO2 was a major driver of temperature trends and ignored the fact that most of the warmers&#8217; papers did not meet the journals&#8217; data disclosure policies.</p>
<p>I think that if the mainstream media wants to restore some of the credibility it once had, it needs to treat this story seriously and to dig into it fully rather than ignore the truth until it is too late.  It is exactly this story that shows why the old media is failing and shedding jobs at such a high rate.  The establishment is not adjusting quickly enough and seems to care more about looking bad by admitting errors than it cares abut the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Pangburn</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166560</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Pangburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166560</guid>
		<description>The hacked emails of climategate are not necessary to show that global warming has stopped and human caused global warming never was.

The Argo float data shows that global warming stopped abruptly in about 2004 (graph on pp4 of http://www.oceanobs09.net/plenary/files/Wijffels_HeatContentTemperature_2Aa_vfinal.pdf )

That AGW never was is shown on a graph that shows predicted and measured temperatures since 1895. It and the associated research are presented in the October 14 pdf at http://climaterealists.com/index.php?tid=145&amp;linkbox=true . The pdf provides the model that accurately predicts all average global temperatures since 1895 with no consideration whatsoever needed of changes to the level of CO2 or any other ghg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hacked emails of climategate are not necessary to show that global warming has stopped and human caused global warming never was.</p>
<p>The Argo float data shows that global warming stopped abruptly in about 2004 (graph on pp4 of <a href="http://www.oceanobs09.net/plenary/files/Wijffels_HeatContentTemperature_2Aa_vfinal.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.oceanobs09.net/plenary/files/Wijffels_HeatContentTemperature_2Aa_vfinal.pdf</a> )</p>
<p>That AGW never was is shown on a graph that shows predicted and measured temperatures since 1895. It and the associated research are presented in the October 14 pdf at <a href="http://climaterealists.com/index.php?tid=145&#038;linkbox=true" rel="nofollow">http://climaterealists.com/index.php?tid=145&#038;linkbox=true</a> . The pdf provides the model that accurately predicts all average global temperatures since 1895 with no consideration whatsoever needed of changes to the level of CO2 or any other ghg.</p>
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		<title>By: greg101</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166558</link>
		<dc:creator>greg101</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166558</guid>
		<description>You write: &quot;Instead of discussing their new report, the Copenhagen Diagnosis, an update of the UN IPCC’s 2007 climate data, they spent most of their time discussing the hacked emails, according to Reuters.

Still, the report findings, based on 200 peer-reviewed papers, reveal that global warming emissions in 2008 were nearly 40 percent higher than those in 1990 and sea level rise is 80 percent above past IPCC predictions, reports Reuters.&quot;

Ahem, this would not be the same scientists who apparently colluded to divert the peer-review process and blackball sceptics?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write: &#8220;Instead of discussing their new report, the Copenhagen Diagnosis, an update of the UN IPCC’s 2007 climate data, they spent most of their time discussing the hacked emails, according to Reuters.</p>
<p>Still, the report findings, based on 200 peer-reviewed papers, reveal that global warming emissions in 2008 were nearly 40 percent higher than those in 1990 and sea level rise is 80 percent above past IPCC predictions, reports Reuters.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ahem, this would not be the same scientists who apparently colluded to divert the peer-review process and blackball sceptics?</p>
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		<title>By: transporter2000</title>
		<link>http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/11/30/climategate-environmentalists-versus-climate-change-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-166540</link>
		<dc:creator>transporter2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.environmentalleader.com/?p=28033#comment-166540</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say it any better that &quot;jtom&quot; post on USA Today...

&quot;If anyone still believes &#039;faithfully&#039; in AGW, please repeat this mantra:

&quot;Almost all of the knowledge I have concerning the temperature warm-up of the last twenty years is from research derived from data originated by scientists at CRU who have questionable ethics, possibly tampered with data, and have hopelessly fouled-up databases and programming; research &#039;consistent with&#039; AGW is also consistent with natural GW and proves neither; and research based on the assumption of AGW, which leads to correct results does not constitute proof of that assumption. Moreover, the fact that I have read far more peer-reviewed research suggesting AGW than the non-existence of AGW is likely due to their clear manipulation of the peer-review process. My understanding of the subject, and therefore my conclusions and beliefs, have been deliberately manipulated.&quot;

If you disagree with the above, read it again until you understand it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say it any better that &#8220;jtom&#8221; post on USA Today&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;If anyone still believes &#8216;faithfully&#8217; in AGW, please repeat this mantra:</p>
<p>&#8220;Almost all of the knowledge I have concerning the temperature warm-up of the last twenty years is from research derived from data originated by scientists at CRU who have questionable ethics, possibly tampered with data, and have hopelessly fouled-up databases and programming; research &#8216;consistent with&#8217; AGW is also consistent with natural GW and proves neither; and research based on the assumption of AGW, which leads to correct results does not constitute proof of that assumption. Moreover, the fact that I have read far more peer-reviewed research suggesting AGW than the non-existence of AGW is likely due to their clear manipulation of the peer-review process. My understanding of the subject, and therefore my conclusions and beliefs, have been deliberately manipulated.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you disagree with the above, read it again until you understand it.&#8221;</p>
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